Subsonic and iPhone

[west-siiiyyde]

Hi,

I just downloaded Subsonic tonight and have been trying it out, it seems to work great and I am happy with it but one of the clients I must stream from is an iPhone.

Even with imobilecinema, the flash player in Subsonic does not work on my iphone (2.2.1), and the playlist functionality sends an m3u (or zip) to the phone which it can't use.

So even to take away any kind of playlist functionality, is there any method to get Subsonic to play music on an iPhone? Would any of the older versions have a non flash player that works on iPhones? Is anything in beta available that fixes this?

Thanks!

[west-siiiyyde]

Ok, so it seems the iPhone is considered not too important. There's a few threads on the forums where iPhone users have asked for help about incompatibilities and theres no responses.

Lets check the facts:



"The iPhone is dominating the mobile Internet according to Net Application. In their latest report for February the company states that the iPhone browser accounts for two-thirds of all mobile platforms browsing online. The iPhone accounted for 66.61% market share in February while the Java ME platform came in at a distant second with 9.06% market share.

Rounding out the top five mobile platforms were Windows Mobile, Symbian and Android. They had market share of 6.91%, 6.15% and 6.15% respectively. The Palm platform came in at 2.37% while the BlackBerry came in just under Palm’s market share at 2.24%."

- source: Geek.com quoting from marketshare.hitslink.com

What is the point of supporting WAP/JAVA for only 9% of mobile users? iPhone users currently comprise 66% of the mobile userbase. For the month of February 2009, 2 out of every 3 cell phones sold in the US were iPhones. Nothing else is even close to the iPhone!

Sindre, you have done a great job with Subsonic but you should reconsider having Subsonic 100% incompatible (even Podcasting!) with the iPhone. An iPhone front-end would be of use to 7 times the number of people than the Java front-end and the number of users this represents is growing.

The other benefit to supporting the iPhone over JAVA/WAP clients is, you get a standardized development baseline to support. Eg 66% of the mobile userbase uses ONE type of client (Mobile Safari) which is on 2 different types of hardware (iPhone 2G, iPhone 3G). Whereas with JAVA/WAP, you have all sorts of proprietary clients and influences depending on whether the phone is LG, HTC, Samsung, Motorolla with each phone model and version posing limitless potential incompatibilities each to a small minority of mobile users. Support just 2 iPhone hardware platforms and one software client, and you can hit 66% of the mobile internet userbase.

[Gandohr]

Nothing else is even close to the iPhone!

For starters, there more Windows Mobile devices on the market then the Iphone. When i look around is hardly see an iphone so 66% of the market seems a bit high to me. So the Iphone is not that important, maybe to you.
Maybe the fact that all iphone users think they have "the best" device is the reason there so many posts about this.

If someone mentioned a bug/request a feature/or whatever, its noted.
We don't have to tell it over and over again.

The HTC Touch HD or a samsung onixia out-rulez your freaking Iphone so don't say nothing comes even close

But thats not the reason for this post.
Sindre is doing a great job on building Subsonic.
Considering the fact that even tho subsonic is one of the best online music players/catalogs he still isn't charging any money for it, and tries to make everyones wishes come true.

So i don't think we should ratle his cage about thinks that are still in development and got his attention.
If you read all forum topics you can see that the mobile platform is one of his key elements of focus.

And for your information, no my phone is not supported yet.
Bummer but it will come eventualy

No offence intended

[Eloquence]

What is the point of supporting WAP/JAVA for only 9% of mobile users? iPhone users currently comprise 66% of the mobile userbase. For the month of February 2009, 2 out of every 3 cell phones sold in the US were iPhones. Nothing else is even close to the iPhone!

Not going to address most of your post, but I feel I must correct you here. While only 9% of online surfers may use a Java client, Java ME penetration in mobile platforms is ten times that, around 75% for 3G phones. Almost every phone on the market supports it (tellingly though, iPhone doesn't...) Therefore it makes sense from a developer's perspective to support Java first.

Also, the US isn't the world, and the iPhone is really tiny in the general phone market.

http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/a ... lications/

In January, the iPhone had 0.48% of the market. People using their phones to surf the web aren't necessarily the same people who'd use their phones to control Subsonic. The iPhone's a cool device, and I'd love to see Subsonic support the platform (I have an iPod Touch myself), but it simply isn't as big as you claim.

[Ikyo]

I haven't played around with an iPhone in a long time, but I am guessing you will need to do something in relation to iTunes and the file. I will do some testing on my touch when I have time to see what I can come up with.

[aphuey]

I think it's funny that this dude that just joined the forum 2 days ago thinks it appropriate to take a program that a person has built and continually improved over several years, all the while graciously taking input from various users, and spend 342 words telling the author of the program that his focus is in the wrong place.

west-siiiyyde seems to like stats and facts. Here's one - he dedicated a whole 9 words of his post to thanking sindre for his years of programming. 9 out of 342. That's less than 3% of his post. Anything with a stat like that, by west-siiiyyde's own logic, isn't worth giving any attention to.

He probably hasn't even donated to the cause!

[west-siiiyyde]

How funny! Apparantly I have touched a nerve with some of the fanboys of other smartphones.

I apologize, as I mean no disrespect to users of other phones. When I said "Nothing is even close" to the iPhone, I was referring to the statistics about iPhone market share. You may not own an iPhone and hate Apple and love your other smartphone, but it is simply a mere fact that the iPhone has completely dominated the market for smartphones. There are other smartphones out there that are perfectly good smartphones, perhaps better than the iPhone to some people-- but it is a fact that the iPhone is completely dominating the market right now in terms of market share and sales. To say otherwise, is simply being ignorant. (Gandohr, this comment is specifically directed towards yourself. Simply because when you look around, you do not see an iPhone 66% of the time, does not refute the sources I linked to in my post. Please do a little homework or keep quiet, thank you).

Anyways, in my post, I mentioned sales numbers to back this point up based in the USA-- only because statistics are most readily available for that market. Judging that the iPhone represents 66% of global mobile internet usage share right now (an exact match of the proportional US sales share of iPhone to other phones), it seems a valid indicator that the rest of the world is pretty much in line with the sales figures coming out of the USA.

Other than childish flames, the only person to quote any actual reputable data of significance to refute my post was Eloquence, who I will take a moment to respond to.

Eloquence also quoted a Marketshare Net Application result which shows iPhone's Mobile Safari only carrying 0.48% of total internet market share in December 08. This figure is correct, however the aggregate total of all online mobile devices is only 0.69% in December 08 also. So .48% of .69%, is an extremely commanding majority of online mobile users.

The following comments are also particularly contradictory and factually incorrect:

While only 9% of online surfers may use a Java client, Java ME penetration in mobile platforms is ten times that, around 75% for 3G phones. Almost every phone on the market supports it (tellingly though, iPhone doesn't...) Therefore it makes sense from a developer's perspective to support Java first.

People using their phones to surf the web aren't necessarily the same people who'd use their phones to control Subsonic.

Regarding the 9% Java ME comment, the 9% number I mentioned below actually refers to Java ME and not just Java client. Java 9%, iPhone 66%. Here's the data to back that up:

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/mobile- ... &sample=31

Secondly, an iPhone user is far more likely to use their phone to control Subsonic than a regular phone user. It's a multimedia enabled smartphone phone intended for customers who want to do this sort of thing exactly, rather than just a regular mobile phone or a communication centric smartphone (like the Blackberry). An iPhone customer is more likely to want music on their iPhone than any other phone other than perhaps the Nokia 5800.

To make sure it is obvious that I have won this argument, I will just mention the excellent point that Eloquence raised: iPod Touch. There are so many iPod's out there that maybe it is even possible when Gandohr looks around he sees one 66% of the time. The potential number of users between iPhone + iPod support would be staggerring.

Mobile Java has been on its way out for some time now for mobile developers. It makes no sense to suggest Sindre should forgo support 66% of mobile users who can be supported on one software platform with 2 hardware platforms (4 if you include Touch support). Java is not standardized properly on mobile phones. Because the hardware is different, if Sindre codes something in Subsonic for Java, it is not be a true representation of what the few users who use it will see. Don't believe this? Just check the problems that he is seeing now in the forum:

(taken from http://forum.subsonic.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1288)

Sorry, I have no idea. To me it looks like all phone models fail in different ways!

Damn.. phone specific problems? That must suck. Gandohr, how does your phone fail?

Phone OS: Windows Mobile 6.1
I get MediaException - type Unsupported
I can play local Mp3 files tho

BAM!! There's the problem right there. Non standardized platform for Sindre to develop on. I bet you there is some other guy running WM6.1 with different phone hardware that doesn't get that error- and maybe he gets a different error. HOW do you expect Sindre to go about fixing that huh? huh? huh? YOU want him to do WHAT to fix that error which you are probably the only person experiencing in the whole world? How many hardware/software combinations do you think Sindre should support just for 9% of mobile users? 50? 200? 1000? On the iPhone, it only takes *3* to support 66%!!!

See the point here? Sindre's already got all sorts of people complaining with phone specific errors using the Java player. Don't you think that it would be an inefficient use of Sindre's time to sort through all those problems just for 9% of mobile internet users, while 66% remain completely unsupported who are running a single standardized platform?? Plus he can get iPod users onboard at the same time? Seriously is it worth his time to look at Java and Windows Mobile problems even for another second?

ps. Apheuy, if it matters, I have lurked for longer than my join date and I have donated already. My posts about this are a second contribution I am trying to make, only because it looks like the current direction is a mistake and missed opportunity to make Subsonic better.

[Gandohr]

Damn.. phone specific problems? That must suck. Gandohr, how does your phone fail?

Phone OS: Windows Mobile 6.1
I get MediaException - type Unsupported
I can play local Mp3 files tho

Thats exactly the point
i stated my specs, error message and went on.
I did not post twice within 2 days after downloading Subsunic.
I did not post with an attitude that my phone is the best (altho it is ofcourse)

See the point here? Sindre's already got all sorts of people complaining with phone specific errors using the Java player. Don't you think that it would be an inefficient use of Sindre's time to sort through all those problems just for 9% of mobile internet users, while 66% remain completely unsupported who are running a single standardized platform?? Plus he can get iPod users onboard at the same time? Seriously is it worth his time to look at Java and Windows Mobile problems even for another second?

Yeah i'd like Sindre to fix it when he has the time, when he comes to it, when he feels like it, thats why i mentioned, briefly.
He now knows the error on a touch HD, and i will see when if ever it gets sorted. i for once did not post 2 with an attitude that my touch HD is the best and that this problem should be fixed before even tried to do anything else.
Like i said before iphone users think there so freaking important that the have to post the same problem over and over again. thats maybe the reason there so many posts about the iphone on whatever forum

Your post has a sound to it that nothing in the world is more important than you and your iphone. And that Sindre must drop everything he is doing to fix THIS problem first, if not the whole damn world is going to fall apart. Could be just me missreading

Point is:
Sindre is putting a lot of (HIS) time in Subsonic talking and listening to all his users. Trying to make all wishes come true.
Trying to make choices on that to do first.
And trying to keep everybody happy listinging to there music all over the world.

Then someone comes along that has downloaded subsonic, and posts on the same evening that the iphone does not work correctly.
Post 2 days later a freaking post that makes me blow steam from my ears out of anger. If your so damn good, write it your freaking self.

Last i would like to say that most are european so bringing arguments bases on stats from the states makes no sense at all, Since we all know people in the states or totaly diferent then europeans.
So the iphone maybe big there but its not in europe.
And there losts of phones at hand that do the same, or do it even beter so i don't think the iphone is going to take over the european market.


Nothing personal, just the way i see things

[aphuey]

I think the iPhone is an awesome phone. It's an awesome multimedia tool. I wouldn't mind owning one, myself. To say that it has gained traction would be an understatement. I get it.

But understand this - Subsonic doesn't work on my WM6 device just like it doesn't work on your iPhone. There are a select number of mobile devices that I'm sure it does work with. To say that support for mobile clients could be improved is also an understatement.

You just took the wrong approach with a dude that gives freely of his time to build what he's built thus far. He's one guy that work's full time, probably has a family and other responsibilities and still continues to roll out updates fairly regularly.

You want added support for the iPhone (even though Sindre's already mentioned that he wants to make mobile support more of a focus)? Fine - a sentence or two would have gotten your point across. More than that and, well, I'd just say it comes off a bit pushy.

[west-siiiyyde]

Again, I apologize for causing offense. But like some others, I posted a one liner mentioning and there was no response. To the contrary when I posted something more, a few fanboys of other phones made negative comments. So it seems to me that some fanboys of other phones maybe get too much airtime in the forum.

About the HTC Touch HD, this thread that doesn't concern you or your HTC Touch HD. But you made a choice to post in my thread so lets talk about it for a moment, since you dispute the facts I have stated, about the iPhone market share of the mobile internet market. First, instead of talking about feelings, lets go over the numbers showing mobile internet market share again:

Mobile Browsing by Platform / Total Market Share
iPhone 66.44%
Java ME 9.11%
Windows Mobile 6.90%
Android 6.26%
Symbian 6.17%
Palm 2.37%
BlackBerry 2.24%
BREW 0.51%
(source: Net Application, http://marketshare.hitlinks.com)

Now, the HTC Touch HD is a nice looking phone, but it hasn't sold 1/1000th of what the iPhone has sold, and it never will. It is simply an imitation iPhone, in a cloud of competition with 20 or 30 other imitiation iPhones trying to acheive parity with Apple's design from almost one year ago. Why do you think everyone in that industry is trying to make an "iPhone-killer"? It is not a coincidence that it looks so much like an iPhone.

HTC made it look great and it has a better camera-- but its CPU and memory are still equivilant to the iPhone, so it does not yet represent true innovation. Once the iPhone imitations truly surpass the iPhones hardware (which will happen later this year), the superior imitation phone will then be up against the next generation iPhone, and the cycle will start again. The difference is, the software development cycle for the iPhone is already years ahead. Even most of the problems on the current gen iPhone are being resolved by third party developers, such as support for flash and cut and paste.

Do you really think the HTC Touch HD is a revolutionary phone? Of course not! The reviews are mediocre and it does nothing that hasn't been done before. Most people don't want Windows running on their phone. And running Microsoft and Java things together makes most technical people want to puke. Sorry, I'm just telling you the way it is.

If Sindre spends 5 minutes on your phone, its 5 minutes less time he could be doing work on a platform for more than tenfold the number of users, which would be infinately easier to support. iPhone users are looking for a product like Subsonic. It's a logical product that many iPhone users would be interested in. This is why you see iPhone users coming here and asking for help. Probably many more have come, read, and moved on. This is what I did myself some months ago.

There would easily be more iPhone users just interested in trying Subsonic alone, than there are globally HTC Touch HD owners altogether. You could probably combine all the current iPhone imitation phones to the totals and there would still be a larger community iPhone users interested in Subsonic than of general owners of other imitation smartphones. The potential userbase is enormous especially if you combine iPod users who could utilize Subsonic as a web based wifi media content server to sync with their home PC MP3 libraries, and it'd be an easy platform to support. Imagine the potential. There's hundreds of thousands of people who would be interested.

Yet you say the iPhone is not a big deal? Some guy on here even asked if I had donated, so lets talk about the monetary aspect for a moment. Recently a third party developer wrote an application that made fart sounds for the iPhone. He made $100,000USD in two weeks. Another guy wrote a game that I hadn't even heard of before and released it only for jailbroken iPhones, he made $250,000USD over a few months. One woman made a crossword puzzle application and has been making $2000 a day. Apple is reporting iPhone app sales of 30 million a month. Electronic Arts just spun out a new company solely to produce more iPhone games after it raked in a killing with its iPhone ports of Simcity and Monopoly, in a market where everybody else is losing money right now.

Has any third party developer made this kind of money developing any application for any HTC phone in history than a guy who made a farting noise application for the iPhone? No, of course not even close. Why not? Because there are tons more iPhone users out there. It has a 66% mobile internet market share.

Why waste more time with rubbish that has already been obsoleted, marginalized, and was 1 year behind to start with? Sindre has a chance to port Subsonic into an application that could change the way people use mp3s (and make him a rich guy). Look at the big picture, and imitation phones like the HTC Touch HD are not part of that.

If you are going to keep posting in my thread, please take a moment to do some research. You say Europeans are totally different than Americans (I am neither) but most Europeans I have met are not so ignorant of current events and the world around them. The iPhone is a *very* big deal and is the sole reason your model of HTC phone exists.

App Store is a Goldmine: Indie Developer Makes $250,000 in Two Months: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/09/a ... eviouspost
iPhone Developers Go From Rags to Riches: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/09/i ... eviouspost
iPhone Fart App Rakes in $10,000 a Day: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/12/i ... t-app.html
Apple developers mark a year of iPhone apps: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10188732-37.html
Jobs: iPhone app sales hit $30 million in a month: http://gawker.com/5035431/jobs-iphone-a ... in-a-month
Part-time apps developers getting rich: http://9to5mac.com/iphone-apps-developers-rich
Apple's IPhone Software Sales Take Off: http://www.dmxzone.com/go?15939

[aphuey]

You want added support for the iPhone (even though Sindre's already mentioned that he wants to make mobile support more of a focus)? Fine - a sentence or two would have gotten your point across. More than that and, well, I'd just say it comes off a bit pushy.

Wow! This guy REALLY loves his iPhone. But you really want to start arguing about who has the better phone? Really??

And you REALLY like writing essays that say the same thing over and over. We get it! The iPhone rocks!

The fact is - the reason why iPhone users would want a Subsonic app so bad is because there's nothing out there currently that does it. An app that makes fart sounds or crossword puzzles is child's play compared to the programming needed to do what you're asking subsonic to do. That's not to say that it can't be done - obviously, given the resources, anything can be done. It would take a team of programmers. I guarantee it wasn't just one guy that programmed monopoly and simcity for the iPhone.

Noone's disputing that there isn't demand for it - people would love it. And it's true that people would pay for it - but obviously Sindre's not in it for the money. How much could he have made over the past number of years if he charged for this program that is already superior to anything that is out there? He's not in it for the money.

If you are - go hire some developers, and build it. According to you - you'd get rich pretty quick. My guess is that you're not interested in the profit potential of it either - you just want some guy to do some work for you that will give you a nice little convenient app for your sacred iPhone.

[Gandohr]

Lol here we go again

Mate
And this is my personal opinion:
I dont care about stats from the states
I dont care how many times a phone is sold
I dont care whats the best phone out there cause everyone has an other opinion
I dont care if you like me or not
I dont care you have to much time to even look for stats
I dont care if someone responds to my post (its there and is noticed im sure)

What i do care about is:
I care about A person who puts a lot of time and effort into building some great tool for all of us to use FREELY
I care about my wife
I care about my music
I care about treating other people with the respect they deserve

For your information:
i buy 4 phones a year
Iphone is swallowing dust in my desk drawer (yeah i got one)

My point is:
There more people then you in the world
Sindre probably has a life, so is not gonna answer all posts on this forum within a day or 2
but we could all ask him to drop all requests and use the valuable time he has and sticks into writing code, into posting reply's on the freaking forum so you are happy

but this is my last post on this subject cause you obviously do not understand why me and all others here are saying.

[west-siiiyyde]

My point is:
There more people then you in the world
Sindre probably has a life, so is not gonna answer all posts on this forum within a day or 2
but we could all ask him to drop all requests and use the valuable time he has and sticks into writing code, into posting reply's on the freaking forum so you are happy

The reason for that is no one who has posted about the iPhone has ever had a reply on the forum indicating anything. All the mobile support is geared towards Java, which as I have been pointing out, excludes a big majority of todays mobile internet users.

From the outset, all you have done is try to discredit the information I have posted (even links sourced to credible websites) without posting any actual information yourself. Please stop trolling my thread. If you want to talk about your HTC Touch HD, please don't do it in my thread.

but this is my last post on this subject

Thanks.

[Gandohr]

you want links
http://www.iphoneworld.ca/news/2008/06/03/iphone-market-share-is-down/ iphone is losing ground
http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/iphone_has_eight_percent_market_share_in_europe/ a whole 8% of the market in europe?
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2007/08/how_high_are_ip.html damn this machine is great lets return it
http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/35561 Not a hit in europe
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-9922804-37.html lowering the price to even get it sold
http://www.ihatemyiphone.com/ if you even register a domain it must be bad
http://www.who-sucks.com/tech/15-reasons-why-apples-iphone-sucks i rest my case

what i mean to say is:
if you google your keyword you tend to find what your looking for
its all in keywords.

O never wanted to talk about my touch HD it does not need advertising
You can't seem to shut up about my touch hd tho, do i sense some jalousy?
Muhahahha

But arrgggggg i said i would not post any more, but you make it so damn easy

http://gizmodo.com/5035521/beautiful-destruction-gallery-of-smashed-iphone-3gs&usg=__5vhO1_buUMDW0vn0PHAjjm_67mE=&h=375&w=500&sz=203&hl=nl&start=4&um=1&tbnid=QB3Uqxq5aXHmfM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Diphone%2Bsmashed%26hl%3Dnl%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1 This one is so sweet
xxx
gandohr

[west-siiiyyde]

O never wanted to talk about my touch HD it does not need advertising
You can't seem to shut up about my touch hd tho, do i sense some jalousy?
Muhahahha

Look, I know I deserve your immature posts to a point because I wasn't very polite. But I didn't go through the work of quantifying a logical argument and providing credible reference links just to win an argument with you about your HTC Touch HD. It's great you like it, and whether your phone is better or worse than mine is beside the point.

The main point I was trying to make has been made already (66% vs 9%). Please, leave my thread like you said you would.