Subsonic and iPhone

[Gandohr]

Thanks finaly you seem to get it (besides calling me inmature)
Play nice.
Respect that everyone has a other tast.
and you will do just fine

I'll leave your thread alone

[west-siiiyyde]

Respect that everyone has a other tast.

Sure. Maybe you could respect that 66% of people have my taste and 9% of people have your taste. So if Sindre fixes your problem, it is at a huge price for him to spend his time that way. Thanks.

[aphuey]

Respect that everyone has a other tast.

Sure. Maybe you could respect that 66% of people have my taste and 9% of people have your taste. So if Sindre fixes your problem, it is at a huge price for him to spend his time that way. Thanks.

And maybe you could respect that what you've contributed to Subsonic doesn't come close to the contribution that Sindre has personally made to build Subsonic. Really none of us are in a position to be telling him the price for how he chooses to spend his efforts.

Brief feature requests are one thing. To criticize him at length for his choice of priorities is over the line.

[west-siiiyyde]

Let me guess.. you own an HTC Touch HD too?

I posted some facts about the iPhone which is getting completely ignored and since then you forum clowns have been trolling in my thread, I guess because you own other types of phones and don't want Sindre to work on other phones like the iPhone.

You even had the audacity to ask if I had donated or not- as if that is relevant when pointing out some basic information in a public forum. Take your irrelevant comments elsewhere about your feelings please like the other guy who had nothing informative to say. I don't care about your feelings or even Sindre's feelings. I just posted some information that should be considered which is currently being ignored. Deal with it and don't act like such whiney ladies.

[Gandohr]

i thought he was learning
i was wrong
just ignore this ignorant guy with his false stats.

[west-siiiyyde]

just ignore this ignorant guy with his false stats.

Don't be a ridiculous fool. Net Application is a de-facto tool which the industry uses to gauge market adoption of different browser technology eg IE, Firefox, Opera. Its been around for many years and has been quoted by media and market research groups extensively.

However, I understand your perspective to discredit these stats. For me, if Subsonic doesn't adopt support for the iPhone, its just a matter of time before someone else makes something from scratch. But for you and the other fanboys, this could be your only opportunity to gain this type of functionality on your phones because most developers won't see it as a worthwhile endevour and a support nightmare. Coding "HTC Touch HD" support for Subsonic represents an opportunity for you. Coding iPhone/iPod support for Subsonic represents an opportunity for Sindre. Thats the difference between 9% and 66% market share.

Read the links I have supplied in this thread. The iPhone is real and it is very, very big.

This is just the way things are. Now try to act like an adult and stop your whining and pouting about it.

[aphuey]

Let me guess.. you own an HTC Touch HD too?

I posted some facts about the iPhone which is getting completely ignored and since then you forum clowns have been trolling in my thread, I guess because you own other types of phones and don't want Sindre to work on other phones like the iPhone.

You even had the audacity to ask if I had donated or not- as if that is relevant when pointing out some basic information in a public forum. Take your irrelevant comments elsewhere about your feelings please like the other guy who had nothing informative to say. I don't care about your feelings or even Sindre's feelings. I just posted some information that should be considered which is currently being ignored. Deal with it and don't act like such whiney ladies.

No I don't have a Touch HD. I have an AT&T 8525. Is it better than the iPhone? Who can say? They serve different purposes for different people. It works ok for me. Does it have as big of a market share as the iPhone. Probably not. But I'm not out to convert anybody.

But since you're big on stats, let me give you some. A search for posts on this forum that contain "phone OR blackberry OR iphone OR mobile OR PDA OR smart OR smartphone", returns 138 results. 138 out of 3661 total posts. That means that the posts that discuss interest in mobile player improvements/support only comprise 3.7% of the total posts. The fact is the vast majority, virtually all, of the posts deal with the use of Subsonic as a computer based client application. That's the main usage.

But let's just say that Sindre decides to focus on mobile support, even though only 3.7% of the posts voice an interest in it. It would be weird, but he can focus his efforts on whatever he chooses. If he decided to focus more on mobile support, it would be good to point out that out of the first 5 pages of the search above, with the exception of your squeaky wheel thread that I'm posting in, only 6 posts mention the iPhone and 22 mentioned a model other than the iPhone. Out of the 28 posts sampled only 21.4% made mention of the iPhone and the remaining 79.6% dealt with non-iPhone devices.

I'm not disputing that the iPhone is huge. Like I said, we get it. My point is that the users of this application are overwhelmingly interested in computer based improvements to Subsonic. Those that are interested in mobile improvements are overwhelmingly interested in non-iPhone improvements. Those are the facts.

[west-siiiyyde]

No I don't have a Touch HD. I have an AT&T 8525. Is it better than the iPhone? Who can say? They serve different purposes for different people. It works ok for me. Does it have as big of a market share as the iPhone. Probably not.

"Probably not?" Hah! I would like to confirm for you with absolute certainty that the "AT&T 8525" does not have anywhere near market share of mobile phones that the iPhone has. LOL and ROFL @ you for thinking that maybe its close. If your mobile internet was more usable, you might be better informed.

The iPhone has been the best selling mobile phone in the world for awhile now. And I don't mean just smartphones. All mobile phones. It sells even more than the Motorolla V3 series.

But let's just say that Sindre decides to focus on mobile support, even though only 3.7% of the posts voice an interest in it. It would be weird, but he can focus his efforts on whatever he chooses. If he decided to focus more on mobile support, it would be good to point out that out of the first 5 pages of the search above, with the exception of your squeaky wheel thread that I'm posting in, only 6 posts mention the iPhone and 22 mentioned a model other than the iPhone. Out of the 28 posts sampled only 21.4% made mention of the iPhone and the remaining 79.6% dealt with non-iPhone devices.

Interesting logic. I like how you include all the phone support request postings from users of phones which apparantly run Java but the application behaves different on a per-model basis so they come here asking for help for their particular phone. There is no advertised support for iPhone, thus there are few iPhone users here, but theres still quite a few by coincidence.

I'm not disputing that the iPhone is huge. Like I said, we get it.

Great! You get it! And you seem to work really hard to be a super-buddy to the developer. Now think about this: Whats in his best interest to do? This summer, the next iPhone 3G model is coming out and will undoubtably boost iPhone market share further. By that time, its concievable that he could have coded an XML/Web 2.0 Subsonic front end, along with adding a Quicktime based player (or even direct Mp3 a la Andromeda) and be in the running with a program that acts as a "personal mp3 itunes alternative" for users of all OS's.

But, no. Here you are posturing, professing your public adoration for the developer, checking to see if dissenters have donated, reminiscing about his years of hard work, and dilligently defending his feelings in case my pro-iPhone view has caused offense. For a second, don't you think, if he had Subsonic iPhone/iPod compatbility working in time for the new iPhone 3G release, that it would be an absolutely brilliant move on his behalf? For his future?

Imagine if the guys who made Google wrote it so that it would ONLY work with Netscape Navigator and not Internet Explorer. If Google worked like that, today no one would have heard of Google and we'd all think it had something to do with a Turkey. Thats how wrong it is for Subsonic to only support Java / Windows Mobile clients.

[aphuey]

LOL and ROFL @ you for thinking that maybe its close. If your mobile internet was more usable, you might be better informed.

Never thought they were close. Again - are you really wanting to argue about who has a better phone?? That's ridiculous.

Interesting logic. I like how you include all the phone support request postings from users of phones which apparantly run Java but the application behaves different on a per-model basis so they come here asking for help for their particular phone. There is no advertised support for iPhone, thus there are few iPhone users here, but theres still quite a few by coincidence.

I included terms that I thought would most likely be mentioned in a post about the mobile player support. After all, that's what your pushing for is mobile player support for the iPhone. I don't think 6 posts out of over 3000 amounts to "quite a few". If there really is that much interest why aren't more people requesting it? Again, I believe it's because Subsonic is primarily a desktop streaming application. But if there really are a huge body of iPhone users that want this functionality, you'd think they'd try to make it known. Unless they plan to just sit idly by until someone gets around to it.

Great! You get it! And you seem to work really hard to be a super-buddy to the developer. Now think about this: Whats in his best interest to do? This summer, the next iPhone 3G model is coming out and will undoubtably boost iPhone market share further. By that time, its concievable that he could have coded an XML/Web 2.0 Subsonic front end, along with adding a Quicktime based player (or even direct Mp3 a la Andromeda) and be in the running with a program that acts as a "personal mp3 itunes alternative" for users of all OS's.

Good idea. But, again - Subsonic is primarily a Desktop application. Why? Because that's where the demand is. If you look at numbers of PC/Mac sales to iPhone sales, there is no comparison. iPhone sales do not even total 1/100th of the sales of PC/Mac's. That's saying alot for the low demand for a mobile application, since it's purported by you that iPhone is outselling any other mobile device. If Sindre wanted to make money off of his hobby, he would do well to market towards computer users rather than mobile users. But, like I said before, he's shown no signs of being in it for the money.

But, no. Here you are posturing, professing your public adoration for the developer, checking to see if dissenters have donated, reminiscing about his years of hard work, and dilligently defending his feelings in case my pro-iPhone view has caused offense.

I guess that's my main problem with you, dude. I honestly don't care too much about the developer's feelings. But it's not cool when you (who you categorize as a dissenter) insist that the developer's priorities are maligned. There are plenty of other people on the forum who have offered their time to put code in place, to add themes, improve functionality, etc. You, on the other hand, demand that you be heard, responded to and that your request be acted on. Again, it just came off a bit pushy.

For a second, don't you think, if he had Subsonic iPhone/iPod compatbility working in time for the new iPhone 3G release, that it would be an absolutely brilliant move on his behalf? For his future?

Don't act like you care at all about his future when you, yourself said that you don't care about him or his feelings. All you're doing is trying to convince him of the potential so that you can leverage it to get the functionality you are looking for.

Imagine if the guys who made Google wrote it so that it would ONLY work with Netscape Navigator and not Internet Explorer. If Google worked like that, today no one would have heard of Google and we'd all think it had something to do with a Turkey. Thats how wrong it is for Subsonic to only support Java / Windows Mobile clients.

The key phrase being "guys who made Google". Like I said before, there may be some potential profit to be had (but I rest on my argument that there is still not as much potential as there is in the computer based application market). But it would involve hiring some guys, obtaining capital, probably quitting your day job and making it happen. You should do it if you're convinced the demand is real.

The question is a comparison of desktop usage vs. iPhone usage and the usage is incomparable. That said, even with the desktop market monumentally out performing the iPhone market, there is still a realtively small grouping of users that have installed Subsonic. Part of this can be attributed to marketing. A large part of it though has to do with the fact that it is not just a stand alone media player. It requires a greater level of technical savvy on the part of the user. Many people that would love this application will never use it because they don't have the skills or desire to set it up.

In short, you're assertion that there is a huge demand for this software for iPhone (especially when compared to desktop users) is wrong. To make a false assertion with no tact, the way you have, well, it's no wonder your request isn't being acted on.

[west-siiiyyde]

Never thought they were close. Again - are you really wanting to argue about who has a better phone?? That's ridiculous.

If you never thought the market share between the "AT&T 8252" and the iPhone was close, why did you say "probably not", as if to suggest doubt?

From the start of this thread, you seek to debate with me but ignore even the most obvious of facts, and instead choose to emphasize your emotions. Your arguments are mostly entirely flawed or based on supposition. Not conceding clearly that the iPhone has a far larger market share than the AT&T 8252 is not debating, it's just bad-faith arguing.

But if there really are a huge body of iPhone users that want this functionality, you'd think they'd try to make it known. Unless they plan to just sit idly by until someone gets around to it.

A few people have already made comments to this effect. And here I am.

Good idea. But, again - Subsonic is primarily a Desktop application. Why? Because that's where the demand is. If you look at numbers of PC/Mac sales to iPhone sales, there is no comparison. iPhone sales do not even total 1/100th of the sales of PC/Mac's. That's saying alot for the low demand for a mobile application, since it's purported by you that iPhone is outselling any other mobile device.

I agree with you, its primarily a desktop streaming application. But if the potential is so insignificant, then why bother to make mobile support for it at all? Clearly, Sindre doesn't agree with your assertion above-- or there would currently be no mobile support whatsoever. Considering he tries to support many different types of Java/WM phones, it looks like he takes mobile support quite seriously.

Also, it's not I who "purports" that the iPhone is outselling all other mobile devices. Aside from the Net Application statistics, I posted earlier, here are some more links regarding recent iPhone sales. 4.3 million iPhones sold in the last quarter alone.

http://www.iphonefreak.com/2008/11/ipho ... ndset.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/11/ ... ola-s-razr
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/01/21results.html
http://startupmeme.com/iphone-becomes-t ... ne-in-usa/

Currently the time is being spent in Subsonic to support mobile usage. Why ignore these figures, and continue to spend the time to just support 9% of mobile internet users, each with different hardware technology? Doesn't make sense, does it? This is my point.

I guess that's my main problem with you, dude. I honestly don't care too much about the developer's feelings. But it's not cool when you (who you categorize as a dissenter) insist that the developer's priorities are maligned. There are plenty of other people on the forum who have offered their time to put code in place, to add themes, improve functionality, etc. You, on the other hand, demand that you be heard, responded to and that your request be acted on. Again, it just came off a bit pushy.

Whether you disagree with my approach does not invalide the information I have provided. It has only given you motivation to argue with me. Unfortunately my post attracted fanboys of other phones, which wasn't the intention. Clearly you are very much attached to your AT&T 8252 just as I am to my iPhone. We could debate this more if you like, but I came to mention some of the sales and Net Application statistics which show that the iPhone is the dominating mobile phone right now. With its standardized platform for 66% of mobile internet users, it is very likely a much more suitable client than Java or WM. You seem threatened by this, why else jump all over my thread?

Don't act like you care at all about his future when you, yourself said that you don't care about him or his feelings. All you're doing is trying to convince him of the potential so that you can leverage it to get the functionality you are looking for.

This is an answer to avoid giving an answer. Of course, you know very well that it would be a great thing for Sindre if he was to do this. One iPhone developer recorded his farts and made an iPhone application to play them back. He made $250,000. Don't you think Subsonic would do better than that? Instead of mindlessly attacking me, think about the big picture for a moment. Because you disagree with my approach, does not mean iPhone support in Subsonic would not be a great thing- both for most mobile internet users, and for Sindre.

The key phrase being "guys who made Google".

FYI, I would like to purport that only two guys (students) made Google. And it would only take one person to make iPhone support for Subsonic.

[aphuey]

From the start of this thread, you seek to debate with me but ignore even the most obvious of facts, and instead choose to emphasize your emotions. Your arguments are mostly entirely flawed or based on supposition. Not conceding clearly that the iPhone has a far larger market share than the AT&T 8252 is not debating, it's just bad-faith arguing.

I've never disputed the fact the the iPhone has large market share. I've admitted that it's huge. You're looking for more concessions???

Let me be clear. My argument is that the overwhelming demand for desktop features overshadows the minor, borderline immeasurable demand for iPhone mobile player support. Explain to me how that is based on supposition or emotions. Just look at the number of iPhone sales to Computer sales. Computer sales dwarf iPhone sales. It's irrefutable. Or again - look at the activity on this board!! You can barely measure the interest in iPhone support!

A few people have already made comments to this effect. And here I am.

That's right. "A few". Hardly enough to claim that there is a huge demand for the feature you are requesting. It's a baseless argument.

Clearly, Sindre doesn't agree with your assertion above-- or there would currently be no mobile support whatsoever. Considering he tries to support many different types of Java/WM phones, it looks like he takes mobile support quite seriously.

Does it really look like it's a high priority? How many support posts deal with mobile support? Like I said before - it's minimal at best. Just look at the version history. How many improvements to the mobile player have been made since the initial release, compared to the huge improvements made to the desktop application?

Also, it's not I who "purports" that the iPhone is outselling all other mobile devices. Aside from the Net Application statistics...

Blah Blah Blah - this thread is long enough without you repeating the same arguments that I've already agreed to. I get it - the iPhone is huge!!! See my argument above above for why it still pails in comparison to desktop computer usage.

Whether you disagree with my approach does not invalide the information I have provided.

Correct - it does not invalidate your information. But if you don't take care in the delivery of your requests, no one will care about the information that your request contains. You can have the best crafted argument, but if it's support you're looking for, tact goes along way.

Clearly you are very much attached to your AT&T 8252 just as I am to my iPhone... You seem threatened by this, why else jump all over my thread?

Clearly you have no idea how attached I am. To be honest, I'll be upgrading in June and have considered the iPhone as an option. Either way I won't lose sleep over whether or not Sindre has made his millions on an iPhone app that benefits me. Trust me - I'm not threatened. Just keeping the facts straight.

This is an answer to avoid giving an answer. Of course, you know very well that it would be a great thing for Sindre if he was to do this. One iPhone developer recorded his farts and made an iPhone application to play them back. He made $250,000. Don't you think Subsonic would do better than that? Instead of mindlessly attacking me, think about the big picture for a moment. Because you disagree with my approach, does not mean iPhone support in Subsonic would not be a great thing- both for most mobile internet users, and for Sindre.

Wrong - I'm not avoiding giving an answer. I'm calling you out on your style of persuasion. You are not out convincing every person in the world about what they should do to better themselves financially. Your posting here, not because of the potential for the developer, but because of what it would mean for you. You didn't start rattling off "fart sound app" stats until you felt like your iPhone posts went ignored. It's pretty transparent if you step back and look at it.

But just to be clear, no. I'm not convinced that it would be financially smarter to develop a subsonic iPhone app than it would to focus on the much larger PC/Mac user base. These people already have computers. They already have a digital library. And they already have internet access (without paying $70 bucks for another data plan). If it's money he's interested in, the desktop market is the way to go. Improve, Market and Sell what's already in demand, then if there is some added profit to be had by selling mobile player functionality, you could focus on that as well. Why you'd start with the iPhone that has less demand than desktop streaming, I don't know. But again, he's shown no signs of being interested in the money.

FYI, I would like to purport that only two guys (students) made Google. And it would only take one person to make iPhone support for Subsonic.

One person? Really? REALLY?? Then do it, dude! And quit whining that your posts get ignored or trolled. Go do it. You're a perfect fit. You think the iPhone is God's gift to man. You claim that you like what Subsonic does. Go make millions. Someday when I have an iPhone maybe I'll buy your app (since I'm sure it won't be freeware) or at least visit your forum where you'll get people like you telling you that your focus is in the wrong place.

[deriksen]

Agree to disagree and leave it at that!

[aphuey]

Good advice. Done. Thanks, deriksen.

[west-siiiyyde]

That's right. "A few". Hardly enough to claim that there is a huge demand for the feature you are requesting. It's a baseless argument.

I don't think it is baseless. 4.3 million iPhones sold in the last quarter, and 23 million iPods. The potential audience is huge compared to current Java/WM mobile device base. You say you "get it" about this, but are you sure?

Also, it's not I who "purports" that the iPhone is outselling all other mobile devices. Aside from the Net Application statistics...

Blah Blah Blah - this thread is long enough without you repeating the same arguments that I've already agreed to. I get it - the iPhone is huge!!! See my argument above above for why it still pails in comparison to desktop computer usage.

Curious- If you had already agreed with the assertion I had made, why did you use the language that I "purport" that iPhone sales are dominating other mobile phones? I think maybe your argument was formed regardless of facts which I have supported by referencing credible sources. If your mind is completely closed to the information I have supplied, and you can quote no credible conflicting information, than what is the purpose of debate?

Also what is the purpose of your comparing the potential iPhone audience to the desktop audience? I am comparing the potential iPhone mobile internet audience to the Windows Mobile / Java mobile internet audience. This is the relevant comparison.

Correct - it does not invalidate your information. But if you don't take care in the delivery of your requests, no one will care about the information that your request contains. You can have the best crafted argument, but if it's support you're looking for, tact goes along way.

You can choose to be ignorant if you wish. If you took a moment to read the information I have supplied and think about it with an open and clear mind, you may have a different opinion than you do now. Only you can make that decision. Even if I put a cherry on top, you will either be receptive or not. Perhaps as a WM device owner, your mind is more closed to the alternative I am advocating.

You are not out convincing every person in the world about what they should do to better themselves financially. Your posting here, not because of the potential for the developer, but because of what it would mean for you. You didn't start rattling off "fart sound app" stats until you felt like your iPhone posts went ignored. It's pretty transparent if you step back and look at it.

Don't be naive. Someone will make an app that does this, and they will probably make a small fortune when they do it. It's an obvious perk to iPhone software development. I'd be surprised if any third party WM developer ever made as much money as the iFart developer did. As it stands now, Subsonic is probably 75% of the work done already, so why not recognize that advantage?

But just to be clear, no. I'm not convinced that it would be financially smarter to develop a subsonic iPhone app than it would to focus on the much larger PC/Mac user base.

Agree. Any mobile support would probably only run alongside PC/MAC support. Like an alternative web front-end. I have only provided details of advantages of the iPhone platform over the existing WM/Java player- but not at a cost of PC/MAC support by any means.

One person? Really? REALLY?? Then do it, dude! And quit whining that your posts get ignored or trolled. Go do it. You're a perfect fit. You think the iPhone is God's gift to man. You claim that you like what Subsonic does. Go make millions. Someday when I have an iPhone maybe I'll buy your app (since I'm sure it won't be freeware) or at least visit your forum where you'll get people like you telling you that your focus is in the wrong place.

Please, calm down. Of course you are free to disagree with me but please don't blow my thread up.

Good advice. Done. Thanks, deriksen.

Maybe that is for the best, at least for awhile. If you end up getting an iPhone and want to know what apps are out there for this, just PM me and I will be happy to tell you what I know. Or perhaps we will be both be using "iSubsonic" by then

[aphuey]

You continue to restate your same arguments as do I. Would you agree that the argument is about where the developer's efforts should be spent? If so, your comparisons of iPhone sales to WM/Java device sales only move to support your argument for iPhone support over WM support. I have never flatly disagreed with this assertion. I just think it an irrelevant comparison when you leave out the desktop factor. When desktop sales are compared to iPhone sales as compared to WM/Java devices, desktop sales blow them all out of the water.

In light of this, if the argument is about where the developer should devote his efforts, the desktop support is a clear winner - Financially or otherwise.

But just for the record, I haven't blown up. It's you who's used words like "naive", "closed-minded", "ridiculous fool", "ignorant", "whiney ladies", "immature". Those are pretty inflammatory, dude. Those are your words, not mine.

Now - you will want the last word and that's fine. The decent thing to do is to agree to disagree. Please don't use the last word to regurgitate your same argument yet again or spout off additional inflammatory words. I'm done. Thanks for the debate.